Woodman

Hello,
I would like advice on the best way to purchase a small, mobile unit for walking around cities in Western Europe. I have a separate unit (Garmin Nuvi) for driving, but its a bit big for walking and the battery life is poor. The problem I've had, in the past, is that the small mobile units get to be expensive when you add the Western European maps...so, I'm wondering if I should try to buy it in Europe (am actually in Paris now)--and if so, would it be possible to get it pre-loaded with the European maps, and much cheaper.... I assume it would still be able to "speak" to me in English...
Appreciate any advice! Specifically--which unit to buy, and where to buy it.
Thanks-

HumVee

Hello, Woodman. Most handheld GPS units come with topographic maps loaded instead of city/road maps. The newer Garmins (Colorado, Oregon, Dakota) come with different base maps, depending on model and version, but you have to dig through every model's web page and read the details to figure out the differences. Some of them come with a North America, Europe or worldwide "shaded relief" map. I have no idea if these are a combination topographic/road map, or just a topographical map without contour lines.... Regardless, all those handhelds are quite expensive though. Perhaps we can start with what kind of budge you're willing to set for this handheld purchase? It might be nice to stick with a Garmin product, since you already own one and can use the same software to manage them - but I don't know if we're going to be able to find a Garmin handheld within your budget range that will do what you want....

Woodman

After looking around a bit I am now thinking of the Garmin 275...small and has European maps.. and also about half the price of the TomTom. Does anyone have experience using this Garmin for walking in European cities?
Thanks!

HumVee

Are you refering to the Garmin nüvi 275T? What nuvi do you have now? the 275T's dimensions are 3.9"W x 2.9"H x .8"D, so it's not as wide as the widescreen nuvi's (4.8"W x 3.0"H x .8"D) - but by less than an inch. That's not a lot of gain in compactness to justify buying another GPS unit (IMHO). Unless your other nuvi is one of the new ones with 5" diagonal display? Their dimensions are a little beefier, at 5.4"W x 3.4"H x .6"D. Then you'd be saving an inch and a half in width and a half inch in height....

Still, if you're happy with the size of a unit like the 275T, then you might be happier with one of the new models, like the 1250 or 1200. In comparison, you can see that they are less expensive than the 275T, because they don't have Bluetooth, traffic updates or the transatlantic map. What they do have going for them is that they can accept the CityXplorer maps, which the 275T can't (and they're just a hair smaller as well). Those maps are by city, and cost $10 each. They provide enhanced pedestrian navigation features.

If you want road maps for travel between cities, then you would have to either purchase a Europe map loaded version (1250 Sku # 010-00783-21; the 1200 has a bunch of Sku's for portions of Europe, but none for all of Europe) - or purchase a US version if you plan to use it here after your trip, and then add City Navigator Europe NT. The cost for doing the latter would be around $244 (purchasing the 1250 & Europe NT from Amazon). If you don't need the Europe NT map, the 1250 is $132 versus the 275T's $174 (on Amazon).

Of course, if you hadn't realized the size of the 275T wasn't that much different than your current nuvi, then you could just look and see if your nuvi is new enough to be able to utilize the CityXplorer maps, and save yourself some money. My biggest concern about any of these units versus a traditional handheld GPS unit is the battery life. You're looking at about 4 hours of battery life on units with sealed batteries, so you wouldn't be able to swap them out (unless you wanted to consider the nüvi 500, which is about the same size and has removable battery packs). That means you'd have a maximum of 4 hours of GPS use between charges.

A handheld GPS unit would have 16 - 20 hours of GPS run time, plus you can carry extra AA batteries and swap them out. The Oregon's, Colorado's and Dakata 20 (but not the Dakota 10) can use CityXplorer maps - but might be more expensive than you're willing to go. An Oregon 200 would run $244 on Amazon, which actually a lot less than the lower MSRP Dakota 20 ($325 on Amazon). The Dakota comes with more base memory, and has the 3-axis magnetic compass & barometer.

Woodman

Thanks HumVee; very, very useful information and I thank you for taking the time to post it! I currently have a Nuvi670; and really like the maps. But size and battery life are the problem. What I am looking for is probably the size of the Oregon; but I would like it to have all major Western European City maps pre-loaded; and it needs to pick up the satellite signal quickly. A compass would also be nice. We currently do pretty well with a simple compass and maps,,,and I'm quite sure my wife won't stand around and wait 5 minutes for a satellite fix! Still, it would be nice to pop up out of the Metro, and know exactly how to walk to our destination,,, especially at nite when its hard to read maps. In terms of budget--would probably spend up to $350; if it really worked well.
Thanks again for your help!

HumVee

Well, I think you'd be happiest with the new Garmin handhelds, with their long run times. The backlit displays would be very viewable at night. They claim very fast satellite re-acquisition with the new Hotfix feature. We're talking seconds instead of minutes to be up and running (after initial satellite acquisition, and if you haven't moved too far from the last location where it had a fix). Basically, you'd need to reacquire satellites each time you moved to an new city. Here's a comment about Hotfix from a user on Amazon's forum:

The problem with any of these new handhelds is the cost - buying new hardware plus maps for your trip. None of the handhelds come with roadmaps (they come with topographic maps, unlike the automotive nuvi's), so you'd be looking at buying roadmaps if you planned to be using your handheld as an in-car navigator to get you between cities. If you didn't need that, you could save the $112 of purchasing the Europe NT roadmap.

On the other hand, it looks to me like your nüvi 670 is already loaded with transatlantic road maps for both North America and Europe? If you could just pack that along with you and use it in the car, then you could avoid having to purchase and load a road map onto your new handheld. Is that a possibility? Of course, you might want to update your transatlantic map to the latest version, which add some cost there. There's a Garmin nüMaps Lifetime Map Update for North America & Europe [Online Map Code] for $150 on Amazon. I couldn't find a "one time" update option on the site. You can use the nüMaps Check Eligibility web tool to see what maps might be avialable for your n670 to purchase from Garmin. Running with the current maps, and dealing with road changes as you encounter them would certainly save you a lot of money.

These three handheld units all accept the CityXplorer maps, have digital compass, worldwide basemap, Hotfix and meet or come close to your $350 budget:

• Oregon 450 - $376 with free shipping on Amazon. Can store 4x the routes and 2x the waypoints compared to the other three units.
• Oregon 300 - $334 with free shipping on Amazon. Has the older style digital compass that is not 3-axis enabled (must be held horizontal).
• Dakota 20 - $325 with free shipping on Amazon. Has lower resolution than the other 3 units, but still very usable (160 x 240 versus the other unit's 240 x 400). The least expensive unit with digital 3-axis compass (which doesn't care how you hold the unit - older units must be held horizontal to get a good magnetic bearing). Longest run time (20 hrs vs. 16 hrs).
• Oregon 200 - $244 with free shipping on Amazon. The 200 does not have digital compass, but is $100 less expensive than everything else. If you can live without digital compass, you can save a lot of money. Also, you will get your bearing as soon as you start moving. This model has the least amount of internal memory (24 MB vs 850 MB of the other 3 units), but all four units have an expandible memory slot for microSD cards.

This comparison chart shows the main features of all four units. Click on the model names to see their full product descriptions. If you can live without the digital compass, go for the Oregon 200. The other three are much closer in price, and you can decide if the additional features are important to you or not. What are your thoughts?

HumVee

Okay...sorry about some misinformation earlier, but I've been doing more reading about Garmin's CityXplorer map products. I've read up on several forums, and also found this review. It turns out that for the vast majority of Garmin GPS units that can use the CityXplorer maps, it gives you no benefit over having the City Navigator map covering the same area (so if you buy the CN Europe NT map, there would be no point in buying CX Paris, CX Madrid, etc.). Only on a very few new units can you access the extra content that would be great for pedestrians trying to use mass transit in big cities - EPN (Enhanced Pedestrian Navigation). It looks like right now, it's only the nuvi 1200, 1250, 1300 & newer models (1490, 1690) that have this capability. I would have thought the newest handhelds (Oregon & Dakota) would as well, but that is not the case. I can't believe these units don't have the EPN functionality, but maybe it will come.... The CityXplorer maps are still advantageous cost wise, if you will only be hitting certain cities in a foreign country, and want to add roadmaps for just those cities instead of buying a City Navigator DVD for the whole region....

Woodman

Garmin really does make this confusing.... I am planning on using my Nuvi 670 for getting between cities, but just want the new handheld to walk around European Cities.. with street maps. I still don't quite understand whether I would have to buy these maps city by city, or if one Garmin map product can be loaded onto a handheld, like the Oregon, and then have ALL the cities there. If so, what is the Garmin product and the price??
Sorry for being slow about this== Garmin just has too many options that sound simlar-
Thanks!

HumVee

Sorry! Some of the confusion is my fault, for not understanding all of the Garmin products either. I think I have a better grasp now. Here are my thoughts on this subject:

• What you want is a GPS device that would be handy for pedestrian navigation in cities.
• Vehicle navigation GPS units come with roadmaps (which naturally include cities) - but they have very short battery life (because you can typically use a car adapter with them) and those batteries tend to be sealed inside the unit so you can't swap them out for a fresh set.
• Handheld GPS units are perfect for pedestrian use, because their shape is easy to hold, they are weather resistant and they have fantastic battery life compared to vehicle units (plus they use AA batteries, which are the single most common batteries in all the world, I think).
• Unfortunately, Garmin only loads their handhelds with basic maps. These maps tend to be wilderness focused, with topographic details and maybe some basic road data - but not to the level of detail you would desire for getting about within cities.

It's my opinion that you really do want to purchase a handheld unit for your upcoming trip (and you will fall in love with it, and use it when you get back as well - for GeoCaching & hiking, among other things). If not, you could always sell it and recoup much of your purchase cost. As to what roadmaps to get, Woodman, that would depend on on how many cities you plan to explore in Europe.

• The CityXplorer maps have all the same roadmap details as the CityNavigator map products - but they've been reduced to cover only individual cities or regions (and they've had enhanced pedestrian navigation features added...that only a very few current Garmin units can access - none of them handhelds)!
• If you are expecting to hit 5 - 8 cities, these CX maps would still be a cost effective way to get the map details you need for the trip (because they cost $10 - $15 each, and you'd only buy the maps for the cities you're interested in).
• If you plan to hit more cities, or plan to return to Europe again and explore other places, then it would make more sense to just go ahead and purchase the CN Europe NT map ($112) and get coverage for all of the cities.
• Another issue is whether all the cities you want to explore have CX maps available for them.

I still think that you'd be happy with one of the four GPS handheld units I've listed above. But since none of them can make use of CX EPN features, you could also consider older Garmin handheld GPS units that can accept CX maps and CN maps. These would be the roadmap capable models that can do turn by turn directions, like the GPSMAP 76CSx (which I have) and 60CSx - but those units are $287 and $296, respectively. There's also the eTrex series, which are very compact and worth considering, like the Vista HCx ($182). Its screen is much smaller, and it's less intuitive to use (IMHO), but it would save you a lot of money. All three of these units have built in digital compass (but not 3-axis designs). However, you would lose the Hotfix fast satelite acquisition features of the newer GPS units.

So have I cleared anything up, or only made it worse? Does anyone else have an opinion they'd like to share with Woodsman?

Woodman

Yes, that is extremely helpful! I don't know if you work for Garmin, or not, but you should! Your explanations are much clear than their website!
I agree with everything you said, and will plan on purchasing a mobile unit with the full set of CN Europe NT Maps, to have all of the major cities.
One last question...in addition to walking around, it occurs to me that this unit could also be great for attaching to a bicycle when cycling through Europe. Will the CN maps include roads around cities...and if we add the need for the unit to be rugged enough to be on a bike...would you still recommend the 60 or 76CSX?
Thanks again..I don't know where you find the time to provide such detailed answers, but I am grateful for the help.

HumVee

I don't work for Garmin, but I like their products - maybe they'll give me a commission?

The CN maps have all the road data available from NAVTEQ for whatever region you purchase them for. Paved roads and mapped but unpaved roads - and the CN maps' purpose is to get you from city to city, as well as navigate around within cities. It's like having a digital road atlas of an entire country (or bunch of countries, in Europe's case). It's easier to use than a paper map, in the sense that you can tell your GPS, I want to go from here, to here, with a stop here - and it does all the calculations for you, and gives you prompts for when to turn, how far until the next turn, and the name of the upcoming street.

All of the Garmin handheld GPS units are IPX7 "waterproof" - meaning that they can survive being immersed in up to 1 meter of water for up to 30 minutes. So they are naturally dustproof as well. All of them are rugged, and designed for mounting on vehicles (including bicycles and motorcycles). If you're an avid cyclist, I'd strongly suggest that you reconsider the Dakota 20, Oregon 300 and Oregon 400. These units are cycling friendly, and you can purchase speed/cadence sensors and heart rate monitors to help you track your cycling fitness data. Also check out the Accessories tabs to see the bike mounts, clips and other items.

If you don't care about the cycling accessories, then either the 60CSx or 76CSx would be fine. They're both identical, internally. Externally, the 76CSx is a literal brick, because it's designed to float if you lose it overboard. The 60CSx, since it isn't designed to float, is about a half inch slimmer and more rounded. I like the control layout of the 76CSx, because the unit balances in the hand and you can control it one handed. The 60CSx has the controls at the bottom, and is really meant to be used two-handed.

You're welcome, and let me know what you end up with!