rugerkahr

Just some random thoughts as I read yet another thread on another forum where someone was complaining about something "THEY" thought should have been listed as a POI...but wasn't there. I've seen this same complaint many times before and people bash their GPS units as being "inaccurate" or "not complete".

I think the breakdown is in the way these POI databases (the built-in ones that come with the map data) are meant to be used. People get upset because things they KNOW exist in "real life" aren't in the database. Do people not understand how HARD and labor intensive it would be to maintain a 100% complete (and correct) POI database of North America? People complain that Google Maps and such have "everything", yet they don't seem to acknowledge that those are "living" applications which are constantly updated from MULTIPLE cartography/map info/directory sources. Unlike our little pocket navigators, which are "static" and not constantly updated...nor do they have anywhere NEAR the same amount of memory on tap. Pretty much, you "gots what you gots" when you hit the road before you can update the POI, maps, etc on a computer.

I guess I've never been let down by the POI database (Garmin) because I view it being developed for and used by a traveler going through an unfamiliar area and/or doesn't know what's around. Seriously, why do I care if something isn't in the database because I KNOW it's there in "real life"? A great many people do get pissed about it, though...

Instead, I search by "genre" or sub-category. If I'm going through an unfamiliar area and I want a gas station, fast food, ATM, hotel, etc... I ALWAYS get what I want and, most often, many, many choices to pick from. If I want Chinese and there's 50 Chinese restaurants in a 10 mile radius yet only 20-25 are listed? Well, that's 20-25 perfectly viable choices, which can quickly and easily be verified by calling the number right there on the GPS with the address. Again, if I didn't know the area, how would I even know about all those other restaurants...or gas stations...or whatever? You get the idea. If I wanted a SPECIFIC Chinese restaurant that I knew about beforehand and wasn't in the POI database? Then shame on me for not getting my "intel" before starting the trip...or calling the free info service on my cell phone...using wi-fi/business center at the hotel, etc.

Again, I have never been let down by my Garmin's POI database when searching for a TYPE of something. Something specific? That needs to be researched ahead of time, plain and simple. Save it as a favorite and hit the road. I travel a LOT and have used GPS in every corner (and all across) the US and this approach has always worked for me. Might save a lot of others some stress, too!

HumVee

Well said, rugerkahr! However, I have been let down by incorrect POI data on my zumo 660 (running City Navigator North America 2010). I was on a motorcycle road trip to visit the California redwoods, and found myself "running on fumes" entering Crescent City, CA. Only 2 gas stations were listed in my Zumo - and both were incorrect (1 was an abandoned gas station, and the other led me through a nice tour of a residential neighborhood). LOL! Fortunately, I was able to find a gas station using Google on my SmartPhone. I didn't get mad though, because I know how important it is to not rely on only one source of information (just like when doing research). If I hadn't been able to find a station using my phone, my next thing would have been to start asking the locals (always a good option)!

rugerkahr

Interesting. I threw my Nuvi into simulator mode and "set location" on the 101 coming into Crescent City, which is a small city. Right off the bat it found four gas stations inside of two miles. The first two were very close. If I had been in that dire of a need for fuel, I'd have stopped and called every POI until I got one which verified it was open for business. I don't have a smart phone, so Googling anything wouldn't have been an option for me.

You were correct in not relying on the POI database, but that was canceled out by "running on fumes". Poor resource management.

HumVee

Well, I was exaggerating for dramatic effect. I had planned out my stops for fuel for the entire 3-day trip before-hand, and used MapSource to download my food and fuel stops for the entire trip to my Zumo. Further clarification: I was looking for name brand gas stations - there's only two listed in Crescent City (CA) in the City Navigator North America 2010 database: Chevron and Texico.

The Chevron listing (284 6th St), is actually a residential neighborhood. You can see this in Google Maps - and I know from direct experience, having followed my GPS to the listed coordinates. The Texico listing (284 L St.) is indeed a gas station lot...or at least it was, at one time in the distant past. It looks to me like the lot has been abandoned for years. The Chevron gas station in Crescent City is actually along Hwy 101 (900 US Highway 101 N).

As a good Garmin/GPS citizen, I had dutifully reported the incorrect entries to NAVTEQ. Before everyone starts flaming Garmin again, this is a NAVTEQ database issue, and not a Garmin database issue. The new NAVTEQ map reporter site is very cool, as you can pull up the POI's in question - and it will even tell you if the issue has already been reported. You can note both POI's and road changes.

rugerkahr

What's a Texico gas station?

On map update 2010.30 (the latest), in addition to the Chevron, I also show a 76 gas station on 1500 Northcrest Dr. in Crescent City. 76 is a name brand chain gas station... They are nationwide and used to be Union 76, but now they're owned by Conoco/Phillips.

I just called it and they're open. Seriously.

Here's the screenshot. It's at the top in the center and that main N/S yellow road to the right is the 101.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/AlbertD/97.jpg

I also do NOT show a Texaco in Crescent City. Are you sure you're running the latest 2010.30 map update like I am? That appears to have been fixed. That update just came out mid-November of last year.

HumVee

ROFL! You got me, the listing was for Texaco (but the gas station still wasn't there...probably because Chevron bought out Texaco years ago)!

No, my motorcycle trip was back in August. At that time, 2010.20 was the latest version. In addition to the Chevron and Texaco entries, the only two gas station listings were "Renner Patriot Too" and "Gas 4 Less" in Crescent City. Since I have NuMaps Lifetime updates, I will go ahead and update to 2010.30 on both my GPS units.

rugerkahr

Well, if you were really that low on gas, wouldn't have any station worked? All gas pretty much is the same and comes from the same distributors. I have family in the biz and this is how it works. If I NEED gas and would like to stop at a Flying J or a Pilot Travel Center (I love truck stops)...and there isn't one around? ANY fuel will do at that point. I don't care if it's five cents per gallon more at that point.

HumVee

If I were "that low," then yes, indeed. Potentially bad gas would be better than no gas at all. However, bad gas with four wheels is annoying - on two wheels it can be disastrous, at least with the style of riding that I enjoy most (canyon carving). While it's true that I've very rarely had problems with bad gas (especially in recent years), I've never had problems with any of the big petroleum chains.

It's not the quality of the gasoline that gives me concern (I understand that it comes from wholesalers), but rather the quality of upkeep of the pumping station itself. I've found water in my tank from badly maintained and tested gas stations - and engine hesitation when you're trying to pull out of a tight lean in a curve is scary business....

rugerkahr

Well, all fuel quality discussion aside...

For all the people who claim map updates are worthless because THEY never see any changes... Garmin/Navteq DID make a visible update to the latest map in your unique situation in Crescent City, CA. That old, defunct Texaco is now gone and a new (chain, yay!) Conoco/Phillips 76 gas station was added. Can't complain about that!

HumVee

Nope! That's why I always urge people who post about incorrect data to contact the appropriate data provider and report the issue! I am excited about the TomTom "Map Share" rapid update concept, though! I hope other GPS providers (nudge, nudge, Garmin!) implement their own similar solution. I think that something like that would go a long way towards reducing these kinds of complaints....

rugerkahr

I'm at a loss as to how this Tom Tom Map Share thing works. Do the units somehow transmit info to the "mother ship" or do users log on and report changes/errors? How can Tom Tom possibly verify all those submissions? What if some asshat(s) start submitting incorrect info "just for fun"? You might ask why someone would do that, but there's also people who find "fun" in writing computer viruses and all that garbage...

HumVee

I wonder the same thing. I'm guessing it's modelled along the lines of a Wiki, with peer review, etc. - but I'm really not sure. I like the concept, but I don't know if it's affective in real life. I haven't seen any posts from TomTom owners on this forum, to see what their "real world" experience of Map Share is. I'm curious - but not curious enough to go out and buy a TomTom to add to my GPS collection. This article shares your concerns, & so do I - there's plenty of malicious people out there that would mess with you just because they can.

rugerkahr

I wonder how the data gets back from the GPS units to Tom Tom. Not everyone (by far) is diligent about bringing in and hooking up their GPSs to their computers to "share". Doesn't look like it's at the wireless point, yet. I'm sure it's been taken care of, but I hope Tom Tom differentiates between a real, needed map change and a map change that someone "wanted" like blocking a road, area, etc because they didn't "like it" or whatever.

HumVee

I pulled down the TomTom Go 740 manual, and here's a summary: as the above article mentions, what you can change is very limited (block/unblock streets, change traffic direction, edit POI's). Map Share users have the option to accept or decline your changes. Reporting new streets or other major changes are handled in the old fashioned way - report to TomTom, and they'll verify and make changes in a future update. You can "Mark" changes on your device, but they won't be uploaded to TomTom until you plug your GPS in to a computer and sync it. Something I found in the manual that turns me off to TomTom's implementation is that you only get 1 year of sharing your changes with the larger community! After that, you can only update your own device with the (already restricted) changes. I certainly wouldn't buy a new GPS every year, just to be able to share my map edits with my fellow users! It seems rather small minded of TomTom to make that restriction....

rugerkahr

Wow, that is rather strange. So you can still pull down the most recent updates from Tom Tom, but you can't "help out" after a year? Doesn't make any sense... If anything, seems like it would be the other way around to entice, although it would be a shitty way to go about it, purchases of new units. Share all you want as long as you want, but after a year? No more dowloading updates but, sure, you want to help Tom Tom out and upload...go ahead.