Banshee79

Does anyone know the largest size MicroSD card you can put in a Garmin Rino 530HCx?

Thanks

HumVee

I think the Garmin Rino 530HCx is approximately of the same generation as my GPSMAP 76CSx. I've used microSD cards of 8 GB - and I'm pretty sure I've even tried my 16 GB card I normally keep in my zumo 660. Knowing that, I'd say the Rino would even be able to use the 32 GB microSD cards that will be coming out. However, since maximum map image file size is 4 GB, that would be ridiculous overkill.

Here is the official statement from the Garmin Support knowledge base:

rugerkahr

Oh, come on HumVee, what about my wacky organizational way of having 5 maps on one card and renaming them as needed with my 60CSx?

Seriously, it's a MAJOR time saver as Mapsource can take HOURS to build and load an .img map file. It takes mere seconds to rename the desired pre-built file instead. The real PISSER limit I hate is the 2025 map tile limit Mapsource imposes, not the 4GB/map size limit. That only comes to around 1GB with TOPO US. I really wish they'd fix that in an update so I can have the entire TOPO US in one file instead of broken up into four. Personally, I think it's an old holdover from much earlier GPS units that didn't have removable memory and had very little internal memory. A 2025 tile limit wouldn't have been a factor because you couldn't load nearly that much at one time anyway. But, that is now NOT the case and it's time to get with the TIMES, Garmin!

Anyway, a 16 or even 32GB card may definitely not be "ridiculous overkill" for someone's particular uses. I have over 5GB on an 8GB SD card and that's just US 100K TOPO and City Navigator. Someone else might also want nautical chart data, localized 24K TOPO maps, etc... I guarantee you I'd have to bump up to at least a 16GB card if I wanted to build all those map sets and store them on one card. In fact, a complete Mapsource overlay "build" into a single map of City Navigator and US 100K TOPO would be over 5GB alone, so the 4GB map limit needs to go as well.

HumVee

LOL, rugerkahr! I love your work-around that you came up with - and since I carry a Windows Mobile SmartPhone and can therefore change the file names on the microSD card "in the field," it's even more useful to me than it is to you! However, I was assuming that Banshee79 was a "typical" user, who would perhaps max out the map image for his/her Rino to 4 GB / 2025 tiles, and otherwise use the remaining microSD storage capacity for storing tracks, routes & waypoints. Since the Rino doesn't have media playing capability, I figured an 8 GB card would be suitable, where a 16 GB or 32 GB card suitable for storing mp3's and pictures would be overkill.

I think Garmin's response to you would be for guys like us to "get with the times," and purchase their newer generation handheld GPS units that can read multiple map image files! Yes, I agree with you that addressing multiple map files rather than one large one is a rather "kludgy" way to get the job done - but it does work (and maintains partial backwards compatibility to older units that would at least see the default image file name). Rewriting their code to allow larger map image file sizes and a greater number of tiles may be feasible, but I imagine there are some technical issues as well. It might be that the physical hardware in the older Garmin GPS units simply can't address more than 2025 map tiles in their address space, or attempting to do so would drastically bog down the device....

rugerkahr

From what I gathered, the 2025 map tile limit applied to ALL Garmin units, including the new ones, because it was a Mapsource limit/problem. I could be wrong, though...

As far as purchasing newer units, the 60/76CS EXXXXX units SHOULD NOT have this limitation. Why in the hell even provide vast expandable memory if each file is limited and has to be chopped into a small one? Even without being able to access multiple files on a card directly on the GPS that limit should have gone away when the first person thought, "Hey, I'd like all of TOPO US in one map file so I can access it no matter where I travel." You'd THINK that should have been a Garmin software engineer, but apparently not. Hell, I thought of it myself. This is NOT new stuff, Garmin. And you've had PLENTY of time to fix it.

HumVee

Just because the newer eTrex & GPSMAP handhelds now have microSD card capability doesn't mean that their code is substantially different from prior generations of their product lines. I don't know for sure, because I don't yet own an Oregon (or Dakota or Colorado), but I think that Garmin's approach was to address the issue via hardware. I think these new generation handhelds simply "see" all map image files located in their data storage, and allow you to access all of it seamlessly. So as a user of one of these new units, you wouldn't see any problem at all.

The point I'm trying to make (and apparently not doing a very good job of it) is that if Garmin (or any company trying to maintain backwards compatibility with their older products) simply started over, it would cause far more consternation with their exisiting client base. They would have to release new hardware (GPS units) and software (maps) written to address the file size / tile limitations. While that new hardware might be able to read older software, the new software wouldn't be able to be read by older hardware. For all I know, Garmin is doing this, and the Colorado, Oregon & Dakota models are the bridge to the future. It may be that those models can read single map files of larger than 4 GB / 2025 tiles, yet still maintain the capablility to deal with map sets saved in the older paradigm.

I equate this issue with the problems in the DOS/Windows personal computer world, when 640 KB of random access memory was seen as all that was needed. Then as applications became more advanced, and a need developed to push past that barrier, kudgy methods were found to address up to 1 MB of memory. We've been kludging along ever since, and only doing major re-writes when absolutely necessary. 16-bit code gave way to 32-bit code (which could address up to 4 GB of RAM), and then 64-bit code was implemented to address the need for more than 4 GB RAM. However, there's been such a reluctance to move to 64-bit, (because many 32-bit apps weren't written in such a way as to capable of running under a 64-bit system) that adoption of 64-bit operating systems have been painfully slow! Change can be a slow and painful thing.

rugerkahr

I "get it". I know about memory addressing, registers, bus capacity etc. I was a comp sci major... However, your DOS memory addressing analogy doesn't apply with the "older" GPS units that CAN access the highest memory addresses of an 8GB (or even larger) SD card. It is not a hardware/data bus issue. If I want a 4GB TOPO map, then Mapsource (software) should allow it. The 60CSx is perfectly capable of accessing every memory address on an 8GB card. It already does page caching, so that's not an issue with display or any further sluggishness. I have over 5GB on my card and every map is accessible. No reason for some arbitrary 2025 tile limit to force breaking the US up into four smaller 1GB or less maps.

HumVee

I think you're mistaking storage capacity for random access memory addressing. Just because my hard drive can store 500 GB of information doesn't mean that I can load all of it into memory at the same time. My 32-bit Windows OS can only address about 3.5 GB of RAM (& yes, I'm aware that 32-bit Linux OS doesn't have this limitation). If an application needed more than that amount of RAM, then it would have to page the remainder of its data to virtual memory on the hard drive. That's something that a dedicated GPS unit may not be able to do. But what I'm really trying to say is that just because Garmin updated the ability to handle larger capacity storage cards doesn't mean that they rewrote their GPS code at all. On our older units, the "OS" may simply not be able to do what you want. Hardware may be part of the issue as well. The chipsets simply may not be able to address more than they are doing right now. But since neither you or I are Garmin GPS design engineers, all we can do is hypothesize!

rugerkahr

I understand RAM, but all the memory locations are physical on the card. The GPS hardware has the capability to access the highest memory locations. Of course access is random, but if that random address happens to be at the highest HEX, binary, etc address? It can "get there" and the bus "bit width" has to physically support that. I do see your point about physical and virtual memory. I honestly don't know what the available internal memory of the 60CSx is, or if it supports page caching. City Navigator is well over 1GB and it has no problem using all of that map in one file. Maybe 2025 tiles IS the limit of the internal memory and IF it can't page swap, well...that explains it... In fact, now that I think about it, it probably doesn't do any physical to virtual memory caching with the SD card acting as the "hard drive".

But, you're right... Who knows...

Max

paging cache?

__________________
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rugerkahr

No, the physical bus width accomodiating the highest memory register number in binary. One digit per trace/bit location. A 64 bit register, with 64 "1s" as the largest number, can access twice the memory locations of a 32 bit register and so on...

linear

Hello all

I have a garmen 530hcx on its way from amazon. I'de like to have the 100k topo\city nav\and every US 24k topo saved on one card (maybe even a few 24k topos of canada as long as im being greedy)

Is it possible to have all that information on one Micro SD card? If So what size card?

Since I dont have my GPS yet i dont understand why it would matter if the different regions of topo maps were on seperate files...lets say i load on the 100k topo of the US and the 24k topo of OR and WA...is it a pain to toggle between them?

I assumed that any map info i wanted could be purchased on a dvd and all i would neeed to do is hook my 530 rino up to my PC via USB and download...is this correct?

I'de like to use my Delkin universal battery charger for the 530's Li-Io battery but cant find the battery specs so i can order the right "plate" for the charger, if anyone can share that info ide be oblidged. Can the Rino 530hcx be charged via usb connection?

Last one (promise)
Lets pretend for some reason you go a whole day without getting a satellite connection to get a fix on your position...how usefull is a GPS (with lots of downloaded maps) for reference?

Thanks all...believe it or not but this thread already answered several of my questions

HumVee

Linear, there's absolutely no way to store all that map data on one microSD card. The "problem" is the 24K maps - that's a lot of data...especially if you want to purchase every 24K map set that is available! Also, your Garmin Rino 530HCx is the same generation of GPS device as my GPSMAP 76CSx. These devices can't read a map image file larger than 4 GB, although the devices can accept larger data cards (I have an 8 GB card in mine, and other forum members report that they have 16 GB cards - so there's no reason to believe that the new 32 GB microSD cards coming out wouldn't work). On my 76CSx, I can get all of City Navigator North America NT and a large portion of Topo U.S. 24K - West in the 4 GB map image space. That's two full states (Oregon & Washington and parts of California & Nevada). Extrapolating that - there's just no way that you could get all of the map products onto one card. Maybe it would fit on a 32 GB card - but you couldn't access it all from your Rino. There's one forum member who posted that he uses a big card, and has a bunch of 4 GB map files on it. There's only one with the right file name to be recognized by the GPS device, but he uses a computer to rename the map files when he wants to use a different map. He says it saves time trying to compile new maps - and I believe him.

However, if being able to access tons of maps from your GPS without having to mess with file name changes is your priority, you'd have to get one of the new generation handheld GPS devices (Colorado, Oregon or Dakota). Even these new devices don't solve the 4 GB mapset file size limit - but instead they automatically find and access all of the available mapsets that they find on in the device's storage. So you could have one mapset for each of your purchased map products - at least that's what I believe...I don't actually own one of these units yet. Unfortunately, there's no two-way radio/GPS combination devices that can do all that yet.

linear

Thanks for the reply Humvee, I knew i was going over the top there but i needed to hear someone say it wouldn't work that way. I did ponder over the Oregon\Colorado models, but really liked that the 530 had the NOAA\transmitter features. I really just need to get the unit and figure it out. Everything ive read here suggests that these units are limited...trouble is it's not clear as far as how the limited file size affects what im trying to do with the unit, and thats unclear simply because i lack 1st hand GPS exp.

I have a good idea as far as what the basic functions (and a few bells and whistles) do, how data is stored and accessed I doubt i could really understand unless i have the thing in my hands

Ignorance allowed me to hope a GPS unit could double as a kind of Kindle for maps so long as there was sufficant storage memory. Maybe there is some product out there that fulfills that niche but is sounds like the GPS units discussed are as close as one can get to that.

Ide like to be able to use the 100k topo along with the 24k for the PNW...realistically i just want a good general trail, road, river, town ect for most of the US and detailed info for OR and WA, nCAL...not really practical to live in the PNW and have 24k topos of florida anyway

HumVee

True! But the biggest thing is the expense - Garmin currently has 5 Topo 24K DVD's (my favorite format for purchasing maps, because it's more versatile & you can load MapSource software and view the maps on your PC). That's over $500 investment in highly detailed maps. Add another $100 for the Topo US 100K and another $100 for City Navigator...and you've nearly tripled your investment in a GPS system. If you happen to have the funds, though - there's nothing stopping you from doing just that.

There's really no need to try and get every single map onto one data card though - these things are the size of your pinky fingernail, and you can easily carry a ton of them. I've heard that several forum members carry their additional cards tucked away inside the battery compartment of their GPS units, and swap them out as needed. The cost of 5 or 6 microSD cards that are "only" 4 or 8 GB in capacity would be a fraction of the cost of buying one big 32 GB microSD card. The highest capacity cards are always way more expensve, on a $/GB value.

If you buy the map DVD's, you could load every card with your entire road map, and most or all of a topo 24K map set (depending on region). You could have one such card loaded with all of CN North America NT, and all or almost all of Topo US 100K (I don't own that map yet, so I haven't tried). I don't see the need to have both 100K and 24K topo maps on the same card, because you'd just be duplicating the same data in greater detail....

The nice thing about the map DVD products is that you can load them onto several different cards (the road maps are locked to the serial number of the GPS unit you bought it for, and won't work with another GPS unit - and the topo maps aren't locked at all). So loading them onto several cards wouldn't be a problem. Of course, you could get by with having just one card, and then reloading it each time you plan to travel somewhere else - but it takes many hours to compile a 4 GB mapset, even with today's speedy computers....

I don't have any experience with the "Download" map products from Garmin. I don't know if they allow you to use the data with MapSource on your PC as well as being loaded onto a flash memory card. I'd avoid the preloaded card unless it was your only option - they cost almost as much as a DVD, and if you lose the card or it fails, your only option is to go and buy another one. If you had the DVD, you'd just build another mapset and be on your way.

steveparker

Well it’s up to your GPS device model that how much it support the memory card.

HumVee

Very true, steveparker! However, Garmin hasn't been very good about publishing in their manuals what the maximum capacity that particular device can handle is. Which is partly why we get so many questions like this. Just because your Garmin GPS unit might have been shipped with a 64 MB or (gasp) a 256 MB microSD card doesn't mean that's the maximum capacity it can accomodate. My GPSMAP 76CSx came with a 256 MB microSD card (but the website states that it ships with a 128 MB card), but I've used 8 GB and 16 GB cards in that GPS unit with no problems. I'm sure it could read a 32 GB microSD card, if and when I can get around to buying one!

steveparker

You are right Humvee dude.

HumVee

steveparker, I just noticed your join date. Welcome to the forum! The moderators of this site (the dudes in red: Keith, Andy, dav & MAX) are excellent fellows. I see from your public profile that you own a Magellan Maestro 4000. I'm barely familiar with Magellan products, and hope that you will be willing to lend your experience to help the other Magellan users on this forum!

If you have questions or problems with your Magellan, then please post them in the Magellan sub-forum. We have a real live Magellan rep that visits the forum (MaggieMagellan), and zee seems quite knowledgeable as well.

steveparker

Hey HumVee how are you dude? Oh that’s really great & so nice of you that offering help. It’s my pleasure to discuss about any problem. Thanks a lot man.

HumVee

I'm doing great, and look forward to you participating more in the forum!

steveparker

I also doing my best & participating as the community member of this forum always give my best to this forum.